Dr. Gladys McGarey: A Well-Lived Life at Any Age

In this episode, I had the extreme pleasure to sit down and speak with Dr. Gladys McGarey, who has just published her latest book, “The Well-Live Life, A 102-Year-Old Doctor's Six Secrets to Health and Happiness at Every Age.” How often can you say you had the chance to speak with a centenarian, especially one as accomplished as Dr. Gladys? She is known as the “mother of holistic medicine.” During our conversation, she shares stories about growing up in India learning from her physician parents, describes how she rejuvenates her “juice” by having purpose and love in her life, and explains her ten-year plan to create a village of living medicine. She instills in us her six secrets to living a well-lived life and implores everyone to find humor in tragedy and to let go of things that don’t matter using the Hindustani phrase “kuchi pruwani.” If only we all could have such a fulfilled, loving life as Dr. Gladys. 

Watch the full interview here:  https://vimeo.com/829139424?share=copy 

Below are links to topics discussed in this episode.

“The Well-Lived Life” https://gladysmcgarey.com/

Check out the book: "Healing and Cancer: A Guide to Whole Person Care"
Visit https://www.healingandcancerbook.com/ for more information.

Connect:
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LinkedIn: Alyssa McManamon

Visit Healing Works Foundation www.healingworksfoundation.org for more information.

Dr. Wayne Jonas is a board-certified physician and Dr. Alyssa McManamon is a triple-board certified hematologist/oncologist. The opinions expressed on this show are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily represent the views and opinions of their places of employment, the Department of Veterans Affairs, or the United States government. The opinions expressed on this podcast are meant for entertainment and education and should not be used to diagnose or treat any medical condition nor should they be used as a substitute for medical advice from a qualified, board-certified practicing clinician. Dr. Wayne Jonas and Dr. Alyssa McManamon have no relevant financial disclosures.

Transcript

Please note that this transcript is produced electronically and may not be an accurate representation of what was said. It may not be reproduced, edited, altered or modified in any way without prior written permission. Any use of quotes or excerpts from this interview requires explicit permission from Healing Works Foundation. Please contact us at healing@healingworksfoundation.org if you would like to use any part of this transcript for quotes or other purposes.

“How Healing Works with Dr. Wayne Jonas”

Interview with Dr. Gladys McGarey—A Well-Lived Life at Any Age

Dr. Wayne Jonas (00:10):

It is a tremendous pleasure on my part to welcome in our next installment of How Healing Works, my guest, Dr. Gladys McGarey, or as people call her Dr. Gladys, to the program. She is referred to as the Mother of Holistic Medicine. I would say she's also the grandmother and now maybe the great grandmother of Holistic Medicine. And she's just released a new book, The Well-Lived Life, 102 Year Old Doctor's Six Secrets to Health and Happiness at Any Age. Yes, you heard that correctly. Dr. Gladys is a centenarian over a hundred, has a 10 year plan for her next 10 years, and she's going to share her secrets with us, which I found absolutely fascinating and you'll probably be surprised at some of these.
(01:04)
Now, most of my interviews, I like to start off by talking a little bit about how people got to where they were, but that would be the entire interview if I did that with Dr. Gladys. So I'm going to just start with the first question, Dr. Gladys. Only 0.004% of people get to be a hundred or more, that's one in 5,000 people. So there aren't very many people around know what that's like. Can you tell us what it's like?

Dr. Gladys McGarey (01:37):

It's a joy, a hoot. I really am enjoying this. I can do some stuff that I wouldn't have thought of doing when I was younger. Yeah, I mean, I'm calling it aging into health because there's a healthy mindset at this point that is very comfortable. I have the most amazing family. My kids are great, they're helping take care of me and I've done the things that I've wanted to do. I walk with my walker around my house and in our yard and can do... I'm free to do the things that my heart wants me to do.

Dr. Wayne Jonas (02:35):

Wow.

Dr. Gladys McGarey (02:35):

And so who gets the opportunity to do that? I get to talk to you, Wayne, for crying out loud. It's been so long and we've never... We've traveled the path together apart for a long, long time.

Dr. Wayne Jonas (02:54):

It has been. And it's great to see you again and to see you, especially coming out with something now and sharing your wisdom. It's so important. I mean you've done so many things in your life that, like I said, we couldn't even begin to cover it. But I do want to hear a little bit about your childhood, especially about your mother and your grandmother, because I know you grew up with two parents who were physicians.

Dr. Gladys McGarey (03:26):

Yes.

Dr. Wayne Jonas (03:26):

And actually amazing that your mother was one of the first osteopathic physicians, studied with AT, still a founder of osteopathy. And then they traveled to India and were taking care of the poor there in India and that's where you grew up, right? As a child.

Dr. Gladys McGarey (03:42):

Absolutely. Absolutely. And it was such a... I thought that my childhood was idyllic. I mean I thought it was the best thing in the whole world because I was kind of free and my mother had an amazing sense of humor and could take things that were hard and just put a little sense of humor to it and make them doable. And then when I went to school, that life changed. But my early childhood was just amazing and I loved the Indian people, and I had free access into the villages because, well, I would go in and if I saw a baby that I thought could use some help, the mother would let me take that baby and I'd bring it to my mother and she'd do what she could and then I'd take the baby back to that mother. It was an amazing ability to just me see what was happening and think, well, I could help you and then be able to do that. And the Indian people had never seen a white-skinned person, so all the kids would come up just rubbing my skin to see if it get some color into it.

Dr. Wayne Jonas (05:13):

Well-

Dr. Gladys McGarey (05:13):

But it was great.

Dr. Wayne Jonas (05:15):

Well, what a-

Dr. Gladys McGarey (05:15):

And my mother was amazing.

Dr. Wayne Jonas (05:17):

Well, I mean your mother sounds fantastic. I'm sure both your parents were. And you're really a testament to what we now know with lots of science behind it, which is if your early childhood is nurturing, loving, free. You know, allows you to take some risks so that you get empowered and embeds in you compassion and purpose or the connection, which are all principles that you write about for a long and healthy life. If you can start that off early, which it sounds like you did and were able to, that this actually then leads through that, those characteristics you can build on for the rest of your life.

Dr. Gladys McGarey (06:01):

Well there's a wonderful story because my first two years were terrible in school because I was dyslexic and I was a class dummy and all of that. And I fought everybody and so on. But my third year, the teacher saw something in me that the others hadn't. And so she let me organize stuff and there was a class play... So I could take the information to the student body and I could do that. I kind of liked that. So there was a class play that was about the frog jumped over the pool. And so my mother made me a frog uniform and I was the frog. And since I was the biggest one in the class, since I'd flunk a year, I could jump over the pad on water when the other kids couldn't, so I was the frog and I jumped.
(06:55)
So I walked out on the stage in my green suit and feeling really pretty cocky, but I looked out into the audience and my two older brothers were in the front row and it threw me off my steps. So instead of landing over the pond, I landed in it. Which was just, it broke my heart. So I stood there crying and the tears are just running and my suit is fading because mom had just dyed it. So my suit is fading, my eyes are... And I'm standing there crying. The teacher has to come and take me off the stage and get me re-situated and so on. And when we were at home at night, my brothers are sitting at the dining room table just cracking up and telling my mother what a great thing it was.
(07:53)
And finally, mother says, "All right now boys, you've had your fun. What can we as a family do to help her so that if anything like this ever happens in the future, she won't be laughed at she'll laugh with them." And it has stood me. I can't tell you how many times I've come up onto a platform and tripped and fallen, and I've been able to pick it up and start the thing off with the audience engaged with what I'm talking about. So it was that kind of a mother that I had.

Dr. Wayne Jonas (08:33):

Yeah, that's incredible. So she was able to take a situation and didn't... Not only turn it into a more positive response, but even though your brothers were laughing at you, she didn't belittle them either. So the entire thing she maintained in a positive. And that's one of your key principles, isn't it? Think positive. That doesn't mean not acknowledge that bad things happen, but it means look for the ways in which you can learn from it and you can turn it into the positive.

Dr. Gladys McGarey (09:09):

Yeah. You can do something with it.

Dr. Wayne Jonas (09:12):

Yes. I love your concept of juice.

Dr. Gladys McGarey (09:19):

Yeah.

Dr. Wayne Jonas (09:20):

I just love that term. I really appreciate that. And for the non-clinical people that are with us, I mean is that the same thing as sort of the life force? Is it joy?

Dr. Gladys McGarey (09:32):

Absolutely.

Dr. Wayne Jonas (09:33):

What is that?

Dr. Gladys McGarey (09:35):

Absolutely. It's what you make of it. It's there. I call it the physician within each one of us and it's that energy that's there, and we all have it. As parents it's so important to recognize that in the children as they're coming up. I mean my parents, my mother and dad were great with that. And it was, and my children, well, I think I've got the best in the world, good kids. Because they've been really, for me, they have enhanced my juice. Sure, there were times when we had things that we had to work out, but they... Particularly when things got really hard, these people that were in my life were what made life real for me. And I was able to get through all kinds of difficult places because they were real and they were living their lives. And each one, I have six. I have six kids, and each one of them is completely different. I mean I couldn't put one in the other one's place for... I can't do it. They are themselves.

Dr. Wayne Jonas (11:00):

Great. We have adapted in a system that I'm teaching physicians and others now to do something called the Hope Note. And instead of the soap note in medicine, you learn how to do the soap note to figure out what's wrong with you. But the hope note is trying to find out not what's the matter with you, but what matters to you.

Dr. Gladys McGarey (11:24):

Absolutely.

Dr. Wayne Jonas (11:24):

And that's the meaning and purpose that gives you the juice, right?

Dr. Gladys McGarey (11:28):

Yeah, absolutely. It's what the physician within you is telling you by whatever is wrong with you. It's not, see, if we try to kill disease and get rid of pain, all we are doing is just run ourselves crazy. That's not the purpose of disease and pain. They're lessons.

Dr. Wayne Jonas (11:50):

They're lessons. Yes.

Dr. Gladys McGarey (11:52):

So if we learn from the lesson, look at what Roosevelt did. I mean he became president. But if we take those lessons and learn from them, they become part of the whole healing process and they empower our juice.

Dr. Wayne Jonas (12:13):

Yes. Yes. So that's again, another one of your principles, which is see things that happen to you, including illness as things to learn from.

Dr. Gladys McGarey (12:23):

Right.

Dr. Wayne Jonas (12:24):

Okay. So pay attention to it with that mindset, to look for ways in which it could be turned into something positive and productive.

Dr. Gladys McGarey (12:31):

What's it teaching me?

Dr. Wayne Jonas (12:33):

Teaching?

Dr. Gladys McGarey (12:34):

What's it teaching me? What is-

Dr. Wayne Jonas (12:36):

Yes. What's it teaching me?

Dr. Gladys McGarey (12:37):

Yeah.

Dr. Wayne Jonas (12:39):

Yeah. So that's fantastic. You told a story about meeting Gandhi. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

Dr. Gladys McGarey (12:50):

Yeah. That was very one of those pivotal things that happened for seconds. Every seven and a half years we came to the States, and now I'm 10 years old and we're on the train leaving our home and going to the ship, and we're going to come back to the states. Well, as we were, the train was going through this station, it slowed down somewhat, and the crowds just powered, and there was just huge crowds. But in front of the crowds was this man walking with his larti, that staff and his dhoti, and just walking along and people were following him. And they came past the window where I was, my face was plastered on window, and he reached down and took a flower from a little girl. And as he did took that, he stood up and looked into my eyes. Now, it was just a moment, but there was a huge connection that happened at that time.
(14:04)
And I understood something about myself that he was reaching for. And 20 years later, or however years it was, when the partition of India happened, my parents worked with Gandhi on that because they were able to do some... They spoke Hindustani very, very well. They were able to share the platform with him. And as a result, he gave my mother a shawl, which I have in my closet here, and my dad, a Panipat jacket. It was that kind of a my spirit bears witness with I spirit. And in my deeper psyche, I connect that with that early on connection that I had with Gandhi. That allowed the whole family process because that relived our family in India. India was home.

Dr. Wayne Jonas (15:13):

Well what a tremendous time and what a tremendous encounter.

Dr. Gladys McGarey (15:17):

Oh.

Dr. Wayne Jonas (15:18):

You talk about that connection and you talk about that intangible but powerful connection as love, as an experience of love, which is another one of your core principles for a happy and healthy life. Right?

Dr. Gladys McGarey (15:36):

It's a central one.

Dr. Wayne Jonas (15:37):

It's a central one. Yes. Is that the most important? If you had to pick one of your six, would it be that one?

Dr. Gladys McGarey (15:45):

Yeah, because life and love go together, but life is like a seed. It can be in the pyramid for 5,000 years and doesn't do anything until love, which is watering and so on and so forth, activates it and breaks the shell so that the energy of the universe, which has been enclosed in that seed comes out. So life and love are integral to each other.
(16:19)
It's like the sperm and the ovum. I mean, one isn't, it can't function without the other. But then I have four other L's that I think lo love activates. And the next one, then after life and love, which become as one. The second, the third one is laughter. Laughter without love is cruel. It's mean. But laughter with love is joy and happiness. And then the fourth one is labor. Labor without love is drudgery. I got to go to work. Too many diapers, that kind of thing. It's just too much. But labor with love is bliss.

Dr. Wayne Jonas (17:10):

Yes.

Dr. Gladys McGarey (17:10):

It's why you do what you do. It's why I do what, it's why a singer sings. It's why a painter paints. It's absolute bliss. And the fifth one is listening.

Dr. Wayne Jonas (17:23):

Listening.

Dr. Gladys McGarey (17:25):

Listening without love is empty sound, the clanging gong and all of that. But listening with love is understanding. So these five Ls for me are like a foundation on which you can build all kinds of stuff.

Dr. Wayne Jonas (17:46):

Fantastic. And love really cuts through all of those.

Dr. Gladys McGarey (17:50):

All of that. It's-

Dr. Wayne Jonas (17:50):

The laughter, the labor, the listening and the life. Yeah.

Dr. Gladys McGarey (17:54):

And the Native Americans have always known that love was the great healer.

Dr. Wayne Jonas (17:58):

Wonderful. Well you've got some fantastic stories on how that has happened, and you've had patients that have been struggling, and that. I love your definition of love, which is really, I've heard others say, but you said it so clearly and gave some examples. It's really about letting go of fear, isn't it?

Dr. Gladys McGarey (18:21):

Yeah. Because-

Dr. Wayne Jonas (18:23):

If you had a fearful childhood, yes, perhaps there's a lot of things that you naturally fear, but if you can let that go, then love just emerges. At least, am I getting it right here?

Dr. Gladys McGarey (18:34):

Absolutely. Love always overcomes fear. That's what my mother did with telling, yes, help us laugh instead of. Laugh with each other.

Dr. Wayne Jonas (18:51):

Yes. Wonderful. You write about a phrase and a hand motion that symbolizes this, Kush Bowwani. Is that it?

Dr. Gladys McGarey (19:02):

Kuchi Pruwani.

Dr. Wayne Jonas (19:03):

Kuchi Pruwani.

Dr. Gladys McGarey (19:03):

Kuchi Pruwani.

Dr. Wayne Jonas (19:05):

And you talk about how you and your sister would do this, and it sort of symbolizes the ability to let go of things that don't... Could you talk about that and show us how it's done?

Dr. Gladys McGarey (19:15):

Absolutely. If you got something that, it could be something temporary, like somebody says something that hurts your feelings and you take it in and think, oh, that hurt me, then you take it in. Or it could be something really deep and really important that is really hurt you, and it's wounded you deeply. But it's come... If you get to a point where you realize that maybe you don't have to hang onto it so much, but maybe if you got a hold of it and you really could have it in your hand and you knew this thing. I either can hang on it like this, or maybe as I loosen my fingers and let the fear move away from this and open my hand up and live it, leave it, we lead it up to the sky and let the pedals flow out from there. And as I say, "Oh Kuchi Pruwani" and drop it and let it go. Kuchi Pruwani means it doesn't matter.

Dr. Wayne Jonas (20:33):

It doesn't matter.

Dr. Gladys McGarey (20:34):

And you let it go.

Dr. Wayne Jonas (20:35):

And let it go. What a wonderful symbol.

Dr. Gladys McGarey (20:38):

It's helped me millions of times.

Dr. Wayne Jonas (20:44):

I love that. Kuchi Pruwani. Right. And the ritual of doing it with your hand and with your body, I think is really important in those areas.

Dr. Gladys McGarey (20:54):

It makes it manifest.

Dr. Wayne Jonas (20:58):

Well you've had a lot of experiences where you had to do that as a woman physician in the middle of the century, rural physician where all the demands were on you with your family and all that type of thing. How did you avoid or manage what now has become really an epidemic in healthcare, which is burnout? That's a huge problem right now, and we're looking for solutions for it in healthcare. How did you manage that?

Dr. Gladys McGarey (21:35):

Well, I think I managed it partly because I had these children, were growing up and I could, it's like when I was in this little town and the one doctor and I would be so exhausted. I would come home, Bob would was 18 months old. He'd be sitting on the steps waiting for me, and I'd pick him up and take him in and rock him while he patted my shoulder. And my life would life come back into focus because the juice would be back. Not completely, but it would be there enough that I could go on with what needed to be next and take the next step. It was that kind of... And it's that idea that you don't have to hang on to the fear.
(22:34)
You don't have to do that unless you really want to. If you cut your arm and you've got a scab there and you keep picking at it's never going to heal. But if you get past that important thing of fear of whatever that was, and you let go and let it heal, then you'll come back and you look at your arm and say, "Oh, I remember you," but doesn't have any pain. The pain is gone. You keep picking at the pain, which is associated with fear, and you keep feeding it. But when you can get to the point where you realize enough already, I've done this long enough, and you begin to realize that it's time to let it go. You can [inaudible 00:23:26].

Dr. Wayne Jonas (23:25):

Well, and this connection that you just described, when you would leave work and you'd be so tired, and then you were then deeply connected back to those who loved you, the family, et cetera, this was renewing, rejuvenating too. So the personal connections, and you talk a lot about personal connections that you had with your patients too, to understand them as people deeply in terms of their mind and their spirit. I mean it sounds to me like and that's one of the key principles that not only is important for health and happiness as you describe, but also for helping you to rejuvenate yourself. And prevent burnout.

Dr. Gladys McGarey (24:05):

Yes, because love has to flow.

Dr. Wayne Jonas (24:09):

Ah.

Dr. Gladys McGarey (24:10):

If you stop love, it dies. So if you're reaching either, whether it's a child or one of your own or the world around you, if you're reaching for love and you find it, it juices you, it gives it to back to you.

Dr. Wayne Jonas (24:41):

Yeah. And that's your sixth principle, isn't it? Keep moving. And it's fascinating. I mean yes, obviously physically moving is important. You want to keep physically moving, but you're talking about keep the love moving.

Dr. Gladys McGarey (24:50):

Oh, the love has to move,

Dr. Wayne Jonas (24:53):

Keep the love, love moving between the connections and that type of thing. Yeah.

Dr. Gladys McGarey (24:58):

We've found out too that in nursing homes, if a elderly person is given a plant to tend, it helps them. Because that way they have a living thing that they learn to take care of, and they learn to love it. So there's so much wisdom in engaging with life and with love.

Dr. Wayne Jonas (25:31):

Wonderful. Well listen, I think we've covered all six of the principles that you talked about in your book, The Well-Lived Life. And I want to thank you for writing it. I'm going to try to communicate, let every people know it. I really enjoyed it. I have one last question for you here. I understand you have a 10 year plan. Can you tell us a little bit about it?

Dr. Gladys McGarey (25:56):

Sure. It's to create a village for living medicine, where these practices are the essence of what the village is about. So anybody who wants to come and join that village has to understand the basic principle for what the village is built.

Dr. Wayne Jonas (26:20):

Yeah, that's wonderful. Well thank you. Well, I look forward to visiting you in that village and continuing this conversation. So I-

Dr. Gladys McGarey (26:26):

Would you like a job?

Dr. Wayne Jonas (26:29):

Dr. Gladys McGarey, a well-lived life. And indeed, you have. And you've shown us all how to do that too. So thank you so much, and thank you for spending some time talking with me.

Dr. Gladys McGarey (26:42):

It's been lovely. Thank you.